Curse

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 21, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Once the enchantment removal starts flying, Dervishes, with their glorious 70 AL, tank about as well as the common suicidal Assassin. That enchantment stacking bullshit will work in the beginning of the game and a few select places mid-game, but high-level PvE and most PvP will treat a Dervish badly.

Scythes do damage well compared to other martial weapons, but have precisely the same counters as Warriors: Blindness, hexes, high armor, etc.

The beauty of the dervish is that they have vastly superior counters to multiple scenarios. Heavy enchantment+Mystic regen=max regeneration. Add melandru and the derv is immune to conditions and heavy damage for a time. Add Dwayna, and hexes are nearly useless. Insert Balthazar, and the ultimate Tank is in play. Even Grenth in his sorry state and with Mending Touch is considerably more dangerous in the right hands.

The dervish is geared to be a countermeasure machine. The warrior, is solely dependent on its secondary for counters. The ranger, assassin, paragon,dervish,monk, and mesmer have counters for both melee and/or hex and condition attacks as well as heavy degeneration.

The sin has a few counters for condition/hex assault, alot less than a dervish but more than any primary warrior. Yet, the sin is considerably more effective depending on the build being used by the individual player and the skill of that player makes the build more or less effective. Most sins only use secondary skills in a limited capacity, due to the need for speedy attacks and spiking damage which is prevalent in its overall successful use as a melee attacker.

The warrior, unlike the dervish, is rather monotone in its own line of skills. No innate ability to remove conditions or hexes, while paragons,assassins, and rangers can- and dervs can heal through all but the most heavy hexes if not ignore them totally with Dwayna. Conditions limit the effectiveness of every warrior, and make their monk's skill hinge on the warrior's overall success or lack there of. Yet, none can replace the warrior in its role as the melee juggernaut. Takes a licking, yet keeps on ticking.

DokkyDok · Aug 21, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Warriors are very useful. I just wont trust a pick up warrior to perform as well as Zhed & Sousuke.

blue.rellik · Aug 22, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

The beauty of the dervish is that they have vastly superior counters to multiple scenarios. Heavy enchantment+Mystic regen=max regeneration. Add melandru and the derv is immune to conditions and heavy damage for a time. Add Dwayna, and hexes are nearly useless. Insert Balthazar, and the ultimate Tank is in play. Even Grenth in his sorry state and with Mending Touch is considerably more dangerous in the right hands.

The dervish is geared to be a countermeasure machine. The warrior, is solely dependent on its secondary for counters. The ranger, assassin, paragon,dervish,monk, and mesmer have counters for both melee and/or hex and condition attacks as well as heavy degeneration.

The sin has a few counters for condition/hex assault, alot less than a dervish but more than any primary warrior. Yet, the sin is considerably more effective depending on the build being used by the individual player and the skill of that player makes the build more or less effective. Most sins only use secondary skills in a limited capacity, due to the need for speedy attacks and spiking damage which is prevalent in its overall successful use as a melee attacker.

The warrior, unlike the dervish, is rather monotone in its own line of skills. No innate ability to remove conditions or hexes, while paragons,assassins, and rangers can- and dervs can heal through all but the most heavy hexes if not ignore them totally with Dwayna. Conditions limit the effectiveness of every warrior, and make their monk's skill hinge on the warrior's overall success or lack there of. Yet, none can replace the warrior in its role as the melee juggernaut. Takes a licking, yet keeps on ticking.

So the Dervish needs to take an elite just to have similar armour to a typical shield warrior makes him the ultimate tank how?

Stormlord Alex · Aug 22, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

and the ultimate Tank is in play.

If you need a tank, you don't waste your time with trash like Balthazar.
You run Obsidian Flesh (which most classes can run).

If an area isn't hard enough to need a full tank, then you don't waste your elite on shit like AoB, and you take an elite that killz stuffs.

Perfected Shadow · Aug 22, 2007, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DokkyDok

Warriors are very useful. I just wont trust a pick up warrior to perform as well as Zhed & Sousuke.

Jora > Zhed + Sousuke

; )

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 22, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Your guild is a pile of horse-ass...

I can't help but take it personally when someone duffs on a Guild Wars Warrior. [note, I'm talking the smarter ones who don't bring shit like Mending]

Let's take off all the fluff*.

Hexes/conditions? Warriors can't handle it, that's why I bring plague touch. Who da quck brings PURE warriors anyway?

Hexes are dealt with by my monk...

I never play solo, almost never [farming*]

Let's take away your enchantments [Rend Enchantments, Gaze of Contempt, whatever]. (I don't need any enchants to do my thing)

When we counter every hex/condition/buff/debuff. which will happen in the meta-game/late game. Warrior is THE class to depend on.

I wield a Shield+Axe and use Flail + Axe Rake in Unison to bury my foes. Your Scythe can hit 3 foes AoE and have a disgustingly slow Atk Spd AND your armor is compromised (what armor? You wear robes...)

If a group of players will say a Dervish is more useful than a warrior, they obviously haven't been fighting people who can rip a Dervish in two. {I've owned several Dervish in RA using Envenom Enchantments, oddly enough... Just for jokes and for fun ^_^. Rend and Gaze of Contempt turns Dervishes *and other cowardly enchant users* into Warrior Food}

I say, play a Warrior, talk to some people who like warriors. [like me ^_^] and see what you can get. When the Dervishes and Sins go down, the Warrior will still be there...

I've filled all my Character Slots [bought all 3 games] and ONLY my warrior and my pvp Mesmer are level 20. Goes to show how addictive and fun the class can be to play for me at least... ^_^

B4 you note it, I HAVE played on my Sin and Dervish. I didn't bring them to 20 cause they're no fun after the enchants/hexes go splat. Adrenaline is too easy to build and I have more enjoyment smashing then waiting to do something... and don't bring up 1v1, if I wanted that, I'd play Dead or Alive 4 or Guilty Gear Accent Core *shrug*

Njaiguni Blaze · Aug 22, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I hardly use melee in PvE. Screws over aggro by luring other groups. And I primarily play a Mesmer which makes me switch targets alot, for a melee class, that is not useful (<-talking about AI). Also, monsters in PvE are usually dealt with before the Warrior has his adrenaline for his combo.

Performance Pudding · Aug 22, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

warriors pwn to me everything seems to be a squishy and nothing seems to hurt me except for empathy and the necro equivelants. so ya.

ctbear · Aug 22, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Warriors are useless? Are we playing the same game?
As a monk the only professions that can make me nervous are the warriors and mesmers.
Sure a dervish can tank, but whats the point when a warrior with a shield can just tank as well as a dervish packed with useless armor buff enchants? And deals decent damage at the same time?

Oh btw your friends and guildmates should uninstall the game before telling shit to more new players.

Age · Aug 22, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Not that I really belong here.... since for the most part I'm one of the anti-warrior crowd..... but you are exaggerating well beyond what is reasonable here, and you know it.

Just face it... Warriors are far easier to pick up and play effectively than Assassins or Dervishes... A n00b warrior will almost invariably beat a n00b assassin, and is quite likely to beat a n00b dervish too... simply because spamming skills can work for the warrior but will not work for the other two.

I'm sure what you're trying to express (albeit inefficiently) is that Assassins and Dervishes tend to have a specific order to their attack sequence which generally needs to be adhered to for maximum effectiveness.... whereas Warriors generally don't... allowing for a bit more potential for variety.

Mastery of any of these classes however is not only about knowing which skills to hit in which order or in response to which actions by the enemy.... but in knowing the timing and reacting to all that happens around you. One can just as easily be given a warrior build and not know how to use it right as an assassin build. The warrior might be more forgiving of mess-ups..... but in the end, a Master Warrior against a Master Assassin... assuming each is anticipating the other... is entirely likely to come up stalemate. I can't really speak for the Dervish since they're primarily designed for AoE... but I'd imagine it isn't all that different.

Learning how to play Warrior is not easy as one thinks as it takes skill as well.It is not so easy to pick an attack chain like Assassin as they have lead,dual and offhand.How do I know this I got an Assassin and found it easier than playing Warrior not tank but Warrior.It takes just as much skill to play a Warrior as it does a Ranger and that takes skill as well.I play one of those as well.

Snow Bunny · Aug 23, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Mmm....

I should stay away from this thread, but it's so juicy and delicious. I love my monk and think little of warriors, but I acknowledge their usefulness.

For Pvp, watch as that warrior spanks you with a quick Evisexecagon spike. Oh wait, your health just dropped from 300 to 0. Bye.

For pve, I never use warriors, maybe Devona if I'm feeling sassy. In pve...their usefulness isn't there for me as other professions do the same thing....except better.

Don't make a dervish, and don't make an assassin. Don't make a warrior.
Make an elementalist, or necro, something that will probably get you into Pugs more easily as a newer player.

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 23, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

If you need a tank, you don't waste your time with trash like Balthazar.
You run Obsidian Flesh (which most classes can run).

If an area isn't hard enough to need a full tank, then you don't waste your elite on shit like AoB, and you take an elite that killz stuffs.

Well, let's get some things straight.

[skill=big]Obsidian Flesh[/skill]

Why look at that! An Enchantment to make a guy a tank? That looks awfully familiar. That's looks like...nah, I won't jump to a conclusion yet.

[skill=big]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill]

Hmm, a tank that runs at 33% faster speeds...hmmm

[skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Heart of Fury[/skill] an IAS and an enchant that makes regeneration of health due to multiple enchantments...what does this mean? Ooooh yeah, its a mobile tank. Unlike OF tanks who are like hot turds in the desert, and normally can't/won't be trying to kill squat, the AoB derv is normally built for high pursuit. You can't honestly be comparing the 2, right? You must have made a mistake of some kind. Yea, that's it...

@blue rellik: To make an effective tank out of a warrior, you need Dolyak Signet, OF, WY!, Varying Stances, Enchantments or the combined mixture of those type of heavy armor skills/spells. They also counter any thought of movement when concerning the heaviest armor enhancing skills/spells. In AoB, you get heavy armor and a speed boost wrapped into one fine package. A shield warrior trying to do the normal warrior stuff will have naturally higher armor, indeed, yet will need a seperate stance or spell for a speed boost. Also, that same warrior can't use an IAS and a speed boost stance at the same time currently.

The derv, on the contrary, can have AoB and Heart of Fury on simultaneously-essentially doing what the warrior can not do. If we wanted, just to split hairs, you could pick up a shield and an axe- spec for mysticism and max the axe and run earth prayers enchants to buff the derv and tank the whole world like a warrior. Go sword and actually have a use for Barbarous. You can have fun playing a warrior with a derv. Tuck your scythe under your robes. Tanking/Being a warrior isn't just for the armored anymore.

Issac · Aug 23, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I played a warrior and have a dervish, I can out damage dervish anytime with my warrior, dervish suffer some more weakness because some builds rely on enchantments,and they can be take off. From my builds I would jsut about always choose a warrior.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 23, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Tanks shouldn't need mobility.
A higher running speed merely increases the chance that you lose aggro.
Spell immunity is where it's at, AoB is shit.

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 23, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Tanks shouldn't need mobility.
A higher running speed merely increases the chance that you lose aggro.
Spell immunity is where it's at, AoB is shit.

Lose aggro? Once again you are thinking of a stand still DoA type of tanking. That has its place, but the generic warrior does no such thing. I'm not saying that dervs are better, or that warriors are worse, or any other argumentative type of thing you can imply. I'm just stating that the genericly well built warrior takes more slots to do what the AoB derv does with 2 slots.

You can't argue that, since that was the original reason that this part of the thread spawned in the first place.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 23, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Sorry, balthazar is terrible, nuff said. Tear shit to pieces with supatanker powers as melandru if you like avatars. If you're a DoA tank, run obsidian flesh or GTFO.

As a side note, what warrior needs 2 skill slots for a speed boost?

Stormlord Alex · Aug 23, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

... and if it's not the DoA, run Mel, Lyssa or Dwayna and tear shit to pieces.
Balthazar is a truly... well... pointless skill.

... gogo Dr! >.>

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 23, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Pointless? Run Melandru or any other form? Neither is part of the conversation. And yes, the warrior needs 3 slots to be effective. Speed boost, IAS, Armor upgrade. 2 minimum if the armor bonus skill isn't being used.

[skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill]=[skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Heart of Fury[/skill]

Swap out for Flail, and the same scenario applies. Take out Balthazar for another form, and the derv needs a speed boost and lacks the armor that naturally comes with balthazar. My point being that a warrior would need 3 slots minimum to equal up to a AoB Derv in mobility and equal functionality. I wouldn't even throw out the assumption that someone here doesn't know what they're doing because it would be unfounded. I'll chalk it up to taste.

You can't argue taste.

Karomi Saoshi · Aug 23, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Being someone whose "anti-warrior" I can understand where your guildies are coming from, but like any profession, warriors are far from useless. Heres how warrior hate breaks down. Warrior is the most played profession in the game and of all the warriors..... A.)Only about 7% of them are actually good and unique, B.)The rest just have a wiki build and spam all the skills, and finally C.) of those 93% of bad warriors 92.9% of them think they're good and zerg rush into everything. The percentage of dervs and sins are more varied, but of course there will always be more bad players than good for any profession. So warriors do have their own uses as do any other class and ppl shouldn't compare, but the general consensus of ppl would take a random dervish over a random warrior, simply b/c they can make the derv take balthazar and mystic regen to make them good. Also 10 times to none, the warrior in your team will run away in mobs un-announced with mending up and nothing else then wonder why no monk healed him. This happens especially if your playing proph, it has a variety of idiotic warriors like this guy in Elona Reach the other day. I was playing a monk and no one called a target, so i did and went back to my buisiness, then out of nowhere i see, "NUBCAKE MONK, STICK TO HEALING ME, WTF?! YOU DON'T HAVE MENDING ON ME?! WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO ATTACK THINGS?!" Needless to say, 5 mins later he stopped listening to ppl and zerged into 4 mobs, killing us all. So basically, its not that warriors are bad, its just that there are a lot more terrible ppl playing it than any other profession

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 23, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

All I have to say is...LOL WOW!!!!